Clibit
I might be the only poster on HBUK interested in this but I am writing this up for my own benefit and hopefully anyone else who fancies a go, or stumbles across this via Google. I first came across this method a few days ago on HBT here... (big thanks to RPh_Guy) ....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/fast-souring-modern-methods.670176/

(And via the link he provided to his wiki page which provides more info...   https://modernbrewhouse.com/wiki/Sour_beer )

"Making sour beer doesn't need to be complicated! These techniques are a good alternative to the antiquated kettle souring method.

Co-Souring Method:
  • Make unhopped wort. Chill as normal.
  • Pitch Lactobacillus plantarum and the yeast of your choice.
  • Ferment as normal, at 65°F or higher.
  • Optional/recommended add hops when it reaches the desired sourness. (Dry hops or hop tea)
  • Package as normal.
Post-Souring Method:
Same as co-souring, except pitch the Lactobacillus after 1-2 days of fermentation (or 8-12 hours if using kveik and fermenting hot).

Post-souring is designed to maximize yeast flavor. It's great if you want to use an estery yeast like WLP644 (Sacc Trois) for example, which adds a nice tropical pineapple & mango profile." (elsewhere he recommends making a starter for the bacteria if you are delaying pitching it).


I previously believed that kettle souring was the quickest simplest method for making sour beers. But the method described here involves making beer as normal, but pitching Lactobacillus Plantarum in the FV with a regular saccharomyces yeast. Mash, boil, cool, then pitch yeast and lacto. The only other difference really is that you don't hop the beer at all until the wort is soured to the level you want (either test the pH or taste test). You add dry hops or a hop tea at that point, but you don't generally use much hops in a sour - they are really there just to stop the souring and protect the beer against infection thereafter. Sourness replaces bitterness.

Most brewers using Plantarum seem to buy probiotic capsules or drinks made solely with Plantarum, like Swanson's capsules and Goodbelly drinks. It turns out that Lallemand Wildbrew Sourpitch is pure Plantarum. There are probably cheaper ways to buy Plantarum, but the info is useful at least.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/wildbrew-sour-pitch/

WildBrew™ Sour Pitch is a ready-to-use, high-performance, and high-purity lactic acid bacteria specifically selected for its ability to produce a wide range of sour beer styles. WildBrew™ Sour Pitch produces a clean and balanced citrus flavor profile typical of both traditional and modern sour beer styles. When inoculated at optimal temperature and the right conditions, it is a powerful, safe and easy way to handle bacteria for various beer souring techniques, such as a typical kettle souring process. Styles which can be brewed with WildBrew™ Sour Pitch include, but are not limited to, Berliner Weisse, Gose, lambic-style, American Wild, and Sour IPA. WildBrew™ Sour Pitch will deliver unmatched consistency, effortless application, fully assured performance and unparalleled purity for brewing the sour beer style of your choice.

  • Fast pH drop that can be completed within 2 days (typically within 24 to 36 hours).
  • High lactic acid versus lower acetic production.
  • Aroma and flavor is citrus and tangy with a hint of fruit.

The optimal temperature range for WildBrew™ Sour Pitch when producing sour beer styles is between 30°C to 40°C (86°F to 104°F). Fermentation rate, fermentation time and pH drop are dependent on inoculation density, bacteria handling, fermentation temperature and nutritional quality of the wort.

Using a rate of 10g/hL inoculate wort with Wildbrew™ Sour Pitch.  (so only 2g in 20 litres, which means a pack in theory could make 5 batches, so 7 quid or so doesn't seem bad). Lallemand says store it in the freezer.. 

"Please store WildBrew® Sour Pitch in the freezer until you need it next. You can easily freeze/defrost when needed. It is very different than dry yeasts."

Wikipedia says: 
Lactobacillus plantarum can grow in the temperature range 12 °C to 40 °C. 
And: It is also present in saliva (from which it was first isolated).
And: L. plantarum are aerotolerantGram-positive bacteria that grow at 15 °C (59 °F), but not at 45 °C (113 °F)

Lallemand Flavour/Aroma wheel:

[Sour_Pitch_Flavor_Aroma_Wheel-300x265]

This is the Lallemand suggested method (pdf download):  https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/bp/BEST-PRACTICES_KETTLESOUR_DIGITAL.pdf

Reply 3 0
Pete

 If you do this theres no reason why you wouldn't keep some as a starter for next time, its just like making yoghurt, you may want to add more yeast.

 Pesh
Head distiller @ Stanaways Craft Distillery
 
Reply 0 0
Clibit
Pesho77 wrote:

 If you do this theres no reason why you wouldn't keep some as a starter for next time, its just like making yoghurt, you may want to add more yeast.

 Pesh


Yeah I guess so. but would the post-souring hopping not kill the bacteria? 
Reply 0 0
Pete

 Probbably, so take it out before hopping.

 Pesh
Head distiller @ Stanaways Craft Distillery
 
Reply 1 0
EspeciallyBitter
Thanks for the great summary, Phil. As usual, you have a knack for making it sound straightforward.

Do the hops kill the bacteria or simply stop them growing? I can't remember off the top of my head if hops are bactericidal or bacteriostatic.

I ask because obviously lactobacilli will come into contact with your brewing gear. I'd possibly want a dedicated PET fermenting vessel and racking cane, vinyl hose, etc. for peace of mind.
Reply 0 0
Clibit
Thanks for the great summary, Phil. As usual, you have a knack for making it sound straightforward.

Do the hops kill the bacteria or simply stop them growing? I can't remember off the top of my head if hops are bactericidal or bacteriostatic.

I ask because obviously lactobacilli will come into contact with your brewing gear. I'd possibly want a dedicated PET fermenting vessel and racking cane, vinyl hose, etc. for peace of mind.


I can't take the credit here, the fella on HBT laid it out really clearly. 

My understanding is that hops don't kill bacteria, they just prevent them splitting somehow. Beyond my comprehension. 
Reply 0 0
EspeciallyBitter
Clibit wrote:


I can't take the credit here, the fella on HBT laid it out really clearly. 

My understanding is that hops don't kill bacteria, they just prevent them splitting somehow. Beyond my comprehension. 

Bacteriostatic agents typically block some molecular signals in the usual propagation cycle of bacteria (DNA replication and suchlike), so they don't divide and generally go dormant. No propagating = no reason to kick metabolism up a gear and grow = no more production of by-products like lactic acid. It's a bit like stabilising agents, e.g., potassium sorbate, which you find in soft drinks and malted drinks like hard seltzer. They don't kill the yeast and other microbes, just stops them doing anything. In high enough concentrations, bacteriostatic agents can kill bacteria. Usually sorbate isn't used at such high concentrations. I don't know if hop alpha acids are present in beer in high enough amounts to kill bacteria or just stop them. As you say, the hopping rate in sour beers is traditionally very low, just enough to stop runaway lacto activity.

So I guess you need to thoroughly clean gear after processing beers inoculated with lacto on the cold side to avoid it hanging around? A bit like if using Brett.
Reply 0 0
Clibit

So I guess you need to thoroughly clean gear after processing beers inoculated with lacto on the cold side to avoid it hanging around? A bit like if using Brett.


Thanks for the explanation. I'm using separate buckets. 5 new 10L buckets arrived yesterday, split batches. Maybe I need separate siphons. I do bleach everything though. 
Reply 0 0
bigmack
I'm looking into doing a couple sour beers for the first time this year. I'd be using lacto, probably with the sour pitch culture above or similar.

I think my preference would still be for a kettle sour though - my reading of the method would suggest an efficient method, high degree of control over sourness (so long as you can get it on the hob as soon as 'finished') and none of the sanitation concerns of it hanging around afterwards.

I also presume kettle souring allows for any level of hot side hopping.

The only thing which would make me consider going down this route will be if I can't get my brew kettle into the fermentation fridge.
Reply 0 0
Clibit
bigmack wrote:
I'm looking into doing a couple sour beers for the first time this year. I'd be using lacto, probably with the sour pitch culture above or similar.



Check out the Philly Sour thread. 
Reply 0 0
Clibit
This table compares the four quick methods of souring. It shows that there are distinct advantages of using lactobacillus Planrtarum in tandem with a sacch yeast, either pitched at the same time as the yeast, or a day or two after (post souring). In particular, using a lactic acid yeast like Wildbrew Sourvisiae or Philly Sour gives you no control over the final sourness. And they don't allow you to obtain yeast expression/flavour from a yeast of choice. So with L Plantarum you can co-pitch with something like WLP644 and get the flavours of that yeast in the final beer, along with the sourness. 

And there's a good discussion about Lactic yeast v Lactic bacteria here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/lallemand-sourvisiae-making-sour-brewing-even-simpler.670117/


CharacteristicCo-souringPost-souringPre-souring (kettle sour)Lactic Acid Yeast
Brewing ProcessNormalNormal-ishExtended and more complicated:
  • Requires two separate brew days
  • Requires sealing brew kettle
  • Pre-acidification recommended
  • pH monitoring recommended
Normal
Turnaround TimeNormalNormalExtended
  • Souring phase adds time
  • Fermentation is slower
Normal
Recommended Yeast Pitch RateNormalNormalHigher pitch rate recommendedNormal
Recommended Bacteria Pitch RateLowHighVery highN/A
Able to control hop rate?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.png
Able to control sourness?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngX-mark-16.png
Avoids high contamination risk?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngX-mark-16.pngCheckmark-16.png
Allows yeast flavor expression?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngX-mark-16.png (minimal)X-mark-16.png (Limited selection)
Probiotic bacteria survive?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngX-mark-16.pngX-mark-16.png
Desirable bacteria flavor?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngX-mark-16.png (minimal)X-mark-16.png
Allows low oxygen brewing?Checkmark-16.pngCheckmark-16.pngX-mark-16.pngCheckmark-16.png
Specific bacteria species required?YesYesNo, if you can control tempNo bacteria required
Reply 0 0
Clibit
Here is a tried and tested recipe for a fruit sour beer that is really simple, using the co-pitching method with lactobacillus plantarum. Sounds like a winner.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/really-easy-fruit-sour.675345/

"This has become a staple beer at my house. It's loved by non-beer drinkers, lager drinkers and craft beer drinkers. Kegs go faster than anything else I make. This is really simple, using the co-pitching method (sacch and lacto go into the ferment at the same time) which is easier than kettle souring. It gives a bit more complexity from the lacto and always seems to end up at about the right acidity level. The OG and mash temp give the right body and sweetness to work with the acidity, and allow the flavours from the fruit to shine through. Importantly, don't be worried about contaminating equipment. It WON'T happen. L. plantarum is so hop intolerant that it won't infect your other hopped beers."
Reply 1 0
GHW
I am totally doing this. I might do a 10L batch and split between raspberries and something else.
Reply 0 0
Clibit
GHW wrote:
I am totally doing this. I might do a 10L batch and split between raspberries and something else.


Lallemand Sourpitch is plantarum, use 1g in 10 litres. So a 10g pack will do 10 x 10L brews. £6.80 at Geterbrewed.
Reply 0 0
EspeciallyBitter
I like the fact that the tartness accentuates the fruit flavour. Non-sour beers flavoured with fruit seem to require a lot of fresh fruit or purée.

Has anyone just chucked the fruit into the primary and left it for a week or so before racking to bottle/keg? The advice is always to rack to secondary. Does the trub work against the fruit flavouring process in some way, or is it just because people want the option of reusing the yeast cake?
Reply 0 0
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