Clibit
I wondered when this would kick off.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/14/battle-over-tax-cuts-on-beer-health-pubs


The great British boozer has become the latest battleground for health campaigners as they take on the drinks industry.

Experts on alcohol harm reduction have criticised a £9m campaign, Long Live The Local, by the major brewers and pub chains calling on the government to cut beer duty in this month’s budget.

Professor Sir Ian Gilmore, chair of the Alcohol Health Alliance who recently quit his position as Public Health England’s chief alcohol adviser over its links to the drinks industry, is one of several who claim that making alcohol more affordable increases harm.

A slick video which has been widely shared on social media, encouragessupporters to sign a petition urging the chancellor to cut beer duty at a time when three pubs a day are closing in the UK.

So far more than 100,000 have signed and 40,000 have emailed their MP. About 20,000 of the UK’s 48,000 pubs are backing the campaign.

Made by the Havas agency, the campaign, produced for Britain’s Beer Alliance, a group of brewing and pub-owning interests, highlights concerns that a cornerstone of British life is under threat. “Pubs bond people together,” said David Cunningham, programme director at the Alliance. “We think that’s worth fighting for.” But Gilmore said the UK would benefit from a beer hike rather than a cut. “Calling for further cuts in duty on alcohol is irresponsible when you consider it contributes to 24,000 deaths and over 1 million hospital admissions every year,” he said.

“Rather than yet another cut in duty, the government should increase it by 2% above the rate of inflation, to reduce harm and raise money to invest in the NHS, police and alcohol treatment services. Our surveys show that would have the support of the majority of the British public.”

George Osborne cut beer duty three times and oversaw two freezes as chancellor. It went up last year and now the industry is braced for it to rise annually in line with inflation, bringing the Exchequer an extra £150m a year. Independent pubs, which comprise 80% of the market and operate on very thin margins, would be hit hard by any rise and have little option but to pass it on to customers.

“If you look at people who drink beer, it’s the hard-working people who Theresa May wants to help,” said Brigid Simmonds, chief executive of the British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA). “When the beer duty escalator was operating, between 2008 and 2013, beer duty went up by 42% and we lost 5,000 pubs and 58,000 jobs.” Pubs say a hike in duty hits them disproportionately because seven out of every 10 drinks they serve are beer.

But Colin Shevills, director of Balance, an agency in north-east England that seeks to reduce people’s alcohol consumption, said the focus on cutting beer duty was misplaced.

“Beer duty has fallen 16% in real terms since 2012, yet pubs still close. All that happens is that supermarkets can pass on the cuts to their customers while publicans can’t. It makes it harder for pubs to compete.”

Dave Mountford, a publican in Derbyshire and a critic of the big brewers, said pubs had not seen any of the previous cuts passed on to them, a claim disputed by the BBPA. “Any reduction in beer duty will have zero impact on prices as it simply provides higher levels of profit to brewers and pub-owning businesses,” Mountford said.

A survey of pub owners in north-east England, conducted for Balance, found that 48% of respondents believed cheap supermarket alcohol was the main cause of pub closures – compared with 4% who cited alcohol taxes. Almost nine out of 10 said that recent cuts in duty had had no positive impact on their business.

Other factors are at work, too. It was recently reported that nearly 30% of young people are teetotal. Meanwhile, coffee shops are becoming alternative community venues and the cost of living is squeezing people’s leisure spend.

At The Adam and Eve in Homerton, east London, where the ad was filmed, manager Justine Bonner said if pints went over £5, customers would notice.

“People haven’t got the money they used to have,” she said. “The people who go out, young people especially, can’t afford to go out in this area and will move on to the next one.”

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Pinto
Shows how far out of touch the "experts" are with reality - it's been a long while since people chose a public house to drink themselves into oblivion.

If they really want to cut source, it needs to be done at the supermarket level - but their supermarket owning titled buddies wont low  a meaningful change that would damage their bottom line.
Beer is like porn - you can buy it easily enough, but its so much more fun to make it [wink]
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John Barleycorn
While they are at it, from a strictly safety concious point of view, metal cutlery, knives and sharp stuff should also be totally prohibited and removed to a safe place, to be replaced with plastic knives and forks for all.
Just think what a wonderfully safe world we would then inhabit !!
So much good to be done !! So little time... Utopia here we come.
Ban the use of glass. Ensure that all inhabitants of this planet are swaddled in a comfy, warm, soft, thick blanket of non-allergenic man-made material, immediately at birth right through until the end of their days. 
Sign a petition and save the planet.
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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Womble
[QUOTE=John Barleycorn]While they are at it, from a strictly safety concious point of view, metal cutlery, knives and sharp stuff should also be totally prohibited and removed to a safe place, to be replaced with plastic knives and forks for all.
Just think what a wonderfully safe world we would then inhabit !!
So much good to be done !! So little time... Utopia here we come.
Ban the use of glass. Ensure that all inhabitants of this planet are swaddled in a comfy, warm, soft, thick blanket of non-allergenic man-made material, immediately at birth right through until the end of their days. 
Sign a petition and save the planet.[/QUOTE

Fully agree .. ban motorcycles too, they are noisy & smelly and they can be the source of grevious bodily harm if you happen to fall off the things ... not that motorcyclists are aware of such things of course ...
Multi-tasking, easy, drink beer and watch telly.
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John Barleycorn
...but seriously the thin end of the wedge was the banning of smoking in the pub. Those who had stood at the bar, fag and pint in hand, who supported and financed the public house, stay home with a few cans, leaving a vacuum. The publican and his customers have lost their communal centre and will no longer be there to welcome whoever might pass by.
...and now, through lack of support, this institution is slowly, inevitably, vanishing.
Sad, but no mystery.

hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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Womble
John Barleycorn wrote:
...but seriously the thin end of the wedge was the banning of smoking in the pub. Those who had stood at the bar, fag and pint in hand, who supported and financed the public house, stay home with a few cans, leaving a vacuum. The publican and his customers have lost their communal centre and will no longer be there to welcome whoever might pass by.
...and now, through lack of support, this institution is slowly, inevitably, vanishing.
Sad, but no mystery.



I am being serious ... they have put the speed limit down to 50 mph over here ... roads are nasty pointy objects and people are unaware of the fact that just moving about can be lethal ... I think they should ban staircases next ... they are REALLY dangerous ...

Multi-tasking, easy, drink beer and watch telly.
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GeeTee

But Colin Shevills, director of Balance, an agency in north-east England that seeks to reduce people’s alcohol consumption, said the focus on cutting beer duty was misplaced.

“Beer duty has fallen 16% in real terms since 2012, yet pubs still close. All that happens is that supermarkets can pass on the cuts to their customers while publicans can’t. It makes it harder for pubs to compete.”

A recent report has also shown that 30% of 16- 24 year old youngsters are not drinking, a rise from 18 to 29% since 2015.  In the three years since 2015 duty has been frozen so effectively beer has become cheaper.This is direct evidence that cheaper drink does not necessarily lead to more beer consumption so there is absolutely no justification for a beer price rise.

The effect of freezing or reducing beer duty is a few pence a pint and at that rate even the most hardy drinkers would have to drink about 100 pints to get enough to buy one extra pint with the savings from the lower duty. A few pence per pint hardly an incentive to alcoholics who will drink regardless of the cost.

GeeTee
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Pinto

"beer duty has fallen 16% in real terms since 2012"

I love how you can bend the facts to suit your arguement; if duty had fell in REAL "real terms" then the Chancellor would have announced 16% worth of reduction over the 2012 base rate in the interceding 6 years to today.  I assume he's trying to tell people that duty falling as a percentage of the overall cost of a pint (when supplier increases are counted in) is the same thing.... [rolleyes]

In reality, these changes affect me very little - I do drink commercial brew, but if it gets much dearer, I'll just revert to brewing 100% of my own beer.  I've imbibed at a PH probably twice in the last 18 months, each experience a little more chastening, financially, than the last - in my youth, the maddest weekend I could muster would have probably resulted in a £100 hole in my account on Monday morning; now, that point is passing by 10pm on the Saturday !  The pub trade is ultimately finished IMO; you'll end up with a scattering of bar/restaurants who sell beer in much the same way as they do a bottle of wine today.

 

Of course, by this point, with the coffers of national gov starting to feel the pinch, you can be assured that they'll be reviewing the law on Homebrew for ways they can tax that again.... [mad]

Beer is like porn - you can buy it easily enough, but its so much more fun to make it [wink]
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Robert
http://zythophile.co.uk/2015/02/07/why-rooney-anand-is-talking-rubbish-on-minimum-alcohol-pricing/
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Clibit
Of course, we are all guilty of killing the pubs by making our own beer!
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Pesho77
 But the pub killed off the coffee house last time round it seams like the coffee house is taking its revenge.

 Pesh
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