John Barleycorn Show full post »
John Barleycorn
DAY FIVE

45. I took the sponge out of the brew fridge, it had risen well and was full of bubbles.

46. I added 50g wholemeal flour, 250g white strong flour, a teaspoon of salt to the sponge with a tablespoon of sunflower oil.

47. I used a silicone spatula to mix the ingredients into a soft sticky dough. I then tipped the dough out onto a lightly oiled work top.

48. I washed and dried the bowl then inverted it over the dough as a cover.

49. After ten minutes I wet my hands under the cold tap and kneaded the dough for ten seconds or so.

50. I re-covered the dough with the bowl. I repeated this dough cycle twice more after 10 minutes each time.

51. I lightly oiled the inside of the bowl and dropped the dough in, turning to coat the dough. 

52. I covered with cling film then put in the 25°C brew fridge. I cleaned the worktop and a sprinkled a fine dusting of flour over it 

53. When the dough had risen by half or so, [after about 45 minutes], I took it from the brew fridge and carefully tipped it out onto the floured worktop.

54. I knocked back the dough, kneaded it  and shape the it into a ball. 

55. I've no banneton so I took a large bowl and put a tea towel over it. I then sprinkled flour over it. Followed by a scattering of oats, a few black mustard seeds and sesame seeds. 

56.  I then lifted the dough ball smooth side down, seam sideup into the middle of the tea towel and then covered the dough with oiled cling film.

57. The dough in its bowl went into the brew fridge at 25°C until it had risen by half or so, which took about 45mins.

58. Meanwhile I heated the oven to 250°C with a pizza stone in there and a tray for water on the bottom shelf.

59. When the dough was ready the pizza stone came out of the oven, was lighty dusted with flour and the dough was gently upturned ot of the bowl onto it.

60. The dough was quickly slashed twice with a sharp blade and the stone was returned to the oven with the dough on board. Boiling water was quickly poured into the tray at the bottom of the oven and the door was shut.

61. After 15 minutes the oven temperature was reduced to 200°C. The bread was baked for a further 25-30 minutes.

62. When nicely browned  I put the finished loaf onto a rack to cool.

63. After an hour I sampled a slice, with butter. Tasty bread with a nice nutty crust. We'll be having some with our meal this evening.

DAY FIVE 01.jpg
the sponge after its night in the brew fridge at 25°C

DAY FIVE 02.jpgflour and salt ready to add to sponge  with oil

DAY FIVE 03.jpg 
the ingredients well mixed

DAY FIVE 04.jpg 
the dough after the first 10 minutes

DAY FIVE 05.jpg 
the dough after its first 10 second knead

DAY FIVE 06.jpg 
a couple of 10 second kneads later

DAY FIVE 07.jpg 
tea towel covering bowl with sprinkling of flour, oats, black mustard seeds, sesame seeds 

DAY FIVE 08.jpgdough dropped into lined basin and covered with oiled cling film

  DAY FIVE 09.jpg 
dough tipped onto hot pizza stone, slashed and ready for the oven

DAY FIVE 10.jpg 
the STUFF and the bread it can raise

DAY FIVE 11.jpgas promised - a slice of bread and butter, tasty with a nutty crust - we'll be having some with our meal this evening


why not have go at making your own?
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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John Barleycorn
There are a few things 'wrong' about this recipe. I view these 'wrongs' as 'training wheels' to make the first few bakes easier to manage.
It is important at the start to succeed and make a nice looking tasty loaf without too much trouble.

What is wrong then?
This loaf has less water in it in comparison with other sourdough recipes, but a wetter dough is difficult to handle for a beginner and the dough presented here will work reliably to produce good bread.
Working at 25°C speeds up the processes and will produce a more than acceptable loaf in a short time frame. Having said that in many places you will read that a slow rise improves flavour. Until you have a good grip on the process I suggest you leave the refinements for another time. Concentrate on producing an easily repeatable family loaf, the rest will follow naturally later.

The novice wants to see results without needing to be highly skilled.
Sticking to this recipe, its methods and temperatures will teach the process without having failures due to unforeseen complications.
Once a few loaves have been baked then it is time to make slight adjustments. You can try a set temperature of 22°C. It will take longer to reach each stage but you will know when you already have experience when each stage has been reached. You can then try at room temperature and observe the changes. With familiarity you will be able to bake around whatever temperatures are available.
The same thing applies to hydration [= how much water is added], tiny changes will make for more challenging handling and baking, so experiment with small changes, a little at a time only when you know your way around.

===

Later I'll post this up as a condensed recipe fit for use in the kitchen and any hints, tips and info I think might be useful.

Give it a go, you know you want to. You will impress yourself and others too.

tips for now:
use a jam jar with a pierced lid as a flour/seed shaker, very effective and gives good control
wet hands slightly under the tap when you have kneading and dough handling to do, makes a sticky dough much easier to manage
use some flour made from homebrew beer grain such as crystal malt to add flavour and texture, a teaspoon is enough added to the dough
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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John Barleycorn
If you have tried this recipe please post here with any comments and/or photos if you have them.

This is a pretty straight forward intro to bread making and using wild yeasts to boot. The results are well worth the effort.
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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EspeciallyBitter
Great stuff, thanks for posting all of this. 👍 I don't know when I'll get around to doing it but I'll post something up here when I do.

One question, in this picture you included:

DAY FIVE 10.jpg 
the STUFF and the bread it can raise

Is that jar the same one to which you added a tablespoon of Stuff the day before? Has that jar been kept in the fridge for one day with nothing else added? Because it is taking up an impressive amount of volume for just a tablespoon and one day's growth if so. 😯
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John Barleycorn
@EspeciallyBitter

Thanks for your comment, I appreciate the interest you have shown.
I think the photo might be misleading you into seeing more STUFF than actually is there. 
Look closely at the first quarter of an inch [6mm] from the bottom of the jar - that is the level of starter.
That is the tablespoonful which was and is in the fridge. Also it is the same jar. It was at that level when it went in and will likely remain at that level while at fridge temperature [4-5°C].
From previous experience I would say that very little will happen, apart from the separation of a little liquid after a while.

To rouse it I will need to move it to somewhere warm, add a couple of tablespoons of water and a couple of flour, then watch for bubbles and feed again when the bubbles appear. 
I've never had a starter not rouse, so I can't say how long it will remain viable but I'm sure a month or two left in the fridge is no hardship for the STUFF.

I've enjoyed presenting this demo. I had wanted to get this method down on paper and this has given me the purpose and incentive to document my progress.
I've also condensed all the above into a recipe which will be easier to use in a hands on situation. I'll present the recipe here after I've re-read and checked it over.

I believe this is an easy way to get into wild yeast [sourdough] baking. There is so much on the internet that just didn't work for me.
Now I hope there is someone out there who can use this to advantage. Please let me know if this has worked for you.

I'd like to add that I am a hobbyist. This is very much the style of my method here. I don't bake every day so my STUFF resides in the fridge and will come out for a spin every now and again. Someone who bakes more frequently will have a slightly different method but I can only relate from my own experience.
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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EspeciallyBitter
Cheers John, good to know how to get the fridge starter going again.

I think the photo might be misleading you into seeing more STUFF than actually is there. 
Look closely at the first quarter of an inch [6mm] from the bottom of the jar - that is the level of starter.

Yep, I see it now! 🔍 Just the light fooling me. 🙂
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John Barleycorn
The loaf you saw there is now well gone.
I have plans.
We have just been out vegetable shopping, and have a nice mix. So tomorrow  I'll be making a ratatouille served with white fish.
I think it would be good with chunks of fresh home-made bread so I've just got STUFF out of the fridge.
I've stirred in a couple of tablespoons of water followed by a tablespoon each of wholemeal and white.
To make it interesting I ground up a teaspoon of crystal malt with the pestle and mortar, adding the grain flour to the starter to, hopefully, add interesting flavour and texture to the loaf.
Might be rubbish but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Meanwhile I'm looking for a decent rise, or bubbles at least. [I put STUFF in the brew fridge at 25°C, again, so as to not complicate matters, though ambient temperature today is warm anyhow. I'll check it out in a couple of hours.
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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EspeciallyBitter
I don't think the malt will hurt. I usually keep a tupperware of spent grist in the fridge after a brew day. Chuck two or three big scoops in the bread machine for recipes that use 350–500 g flour. Gives the loaf a bit more body. Grists from dark milds and porters add a nice flavour too.
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John Barleycorn
I just got the rise, a good double, after about 3 hours.
I've mixed in flour and water for the sponge.
It will be ready tomorrow morning, when I will remember, I hope, to take a tablespoon sample for the Stuff jar.
This is all still at 25°C.

I've made bread using commercial yeast adding all sorts of extras with no problems and as you say it should be okay in a wild yeast bake.
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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John Barleycorn
It is silly o'clock next morning. I checked the sponge - it is bubbling up a treat.
I've weighed up and measured the flour and salt in a bowl but I won't be adding them until a more respectable hour.
I'll just finish this cuppa I made and back to bed for an hour or two.
Before I forget, I'll take a tablespoonful of the sponge, mix it with one tablespoon of water and one of flour, transfer it to its STUFF jar, lid it and put at the back of the kitchen fridge [the cold one].  

Then in the morning it will be a repeat of the actions on the DAY FIVE post. I Iet the dough prove for an hour this time - next time i'll try 90 minutes. The bread was delicious.

note: after proving I put it in the kitchen fridge for 20 minutes to make slashing the dough easier.

This is so easy you gotta try it... I don't mean the waking up in the middle of the night btw  🙂


hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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John Barleycorn
Here's a link to a lot of readable but good, illustrated in-depth info on sourdough for anyone, really, suitable for novice and expert alike.

https://truesourdough.com

well worth a visit.

After reading info at that site I have modified my method slightly.
hoptimism - the realisation that each pint carries you forward to an ever more perfect ale...
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Chug
I've never tried making bread with a sourdough yeast but reading your write up has got me interested John, so i think I'll give it a go soon....cheers great thread 👍

Just got some 50/50 of our watermill stoneground wholemeal and strong white flour rolls proving to go with a nice stew this evening 😍

So just to confirm, after four days feeding you make the sponge with larger amount of flour and water? and then next day add more flour and salt and oil for the dough?
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Chug
John some questions if you don't mind?

Day 4 In step 20...... three tablespoons into a jar and discard the remainder, I'm confused...
Are you basically starting again?
Could you not just keep feeding it?
Why do you discard it, could it not be kept as starter stuff in the fridge?

Anyway the crack is afoot!, I've just put a tbsp of strong white and a tbsp of stoneground wholemeal into 2 tbsp of cooled boiled water in an open jar on the kitchen window sill 👍
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EspeciallyBitter
Chug wrote:
I've never tried making bread with a sourdough yeast but reading your write up has got me interested John, so i think I'll give it a go soon....cheers great thread 👍

It's well worth it if you get a good culture. Years ago when we were still in the UK my friend shared some of his sourdough ‘mother’ and my wife made some really delicious bread with it. Sadly we ended up letting it slide and eventually the starter was no good. Real shame though, it made some of the best-tasting sourdough I've ever had.
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