Clibit
I have been reading a thread about a thread on HBT about malts, yeasts and hops used in leading NEIPAs. Particularly Tree House Julius.  Some surprising developments (based on conjecture more than facts I think):


Some NEIPA brewers are now ditching the oats, possibly over fears that the high lipid content will drop out some of the hoppiness, and replacing it with 20% Carapils or other dextrin malts. The Julius cloners seem to be keeping it pretty simple, 80% 2-row, 20% Carapils.

Yeast-wise, there seems to be a bit of a move away from the Conan family (eg Vermont) on the grounds that they can be a bit overly peach/apricot. Also the different versions of "Conan" seem to be developing distinct characteristics, hence the reference to a Conan "family". 

1318 seems to be the main go to, allegedly used by Hill Farmstead and other big names. It's not quite as punchy but is a bit more complex and gives a softer mouth feel than Conan.

The DNA fingerprinting (!) suggests that Tree House use a blend of Fermentis DRY yeasts, S-04, WB-06 and T-58; WHAT?!!! [rofl] Then they seem to use F-2 or CBC-1 as a bottling yeast.

By experiment people seem to think that ~84% S-04, 8% WB-06, 8% T-58 seems to give a good approximation to Julius and to be nicer than 1318 on its own. Some are staging the different yeasts, but adding them in one go seems to work fine. 

Perhaps more important is fermentation temperature - moving it up or down encourages ester formation. It's suggested that Tree House are adding the dry yeast fairly warm (say 25C) and then letting it drop to 19C for the first few days of fermentation, then dropping it further to 16C.



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Clibit
If, like me, you're under the weather and bored rigid, try having a read of the thread in question! It's about 107 pages at the moment! But it's the earlier pages that have the meat, it rambles on for ever with people who are doing trial brews to see what works best. A biochemist home brewer decided to suss out what yeast Tree House brewery uses and DNA tested loads of home brew yeasts, with some interesting results. Yeasts that are closely related etc. And various brewers are trying to clone Tree House beers with the yeasts identified within them. A lot of interesting stuff cropping up. Yeast, malt, hops, water, fermentation, carbonation etc.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=623221

I guess what is most interesting is that these top rated US breweries like Tree House, Trillium, Hill Farmstead are apparently using dried yeasts. S04, chiefly, but adding small amounts of other yeasts. Blending different yeasts to combine their different effects in terms of flavour, attenuation, mouth feel. 

I remember liking a couple of beers I made with S33 ages ago, except the FGs  were around 1020, and wondering if I should joint pitch it with Nottingham or US05. I did try to get the gravity down on at least one of them  by pitching Gervin late on, but only got down to 1018.

I doubt I will ever fully get to grips with the whole yeast and fermentation thing. It's such a massive subject and you can only learn lots by brewing lots really. Properly learn. Luckily we can make lovely beer by just buying some good yeast chucking it in!

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Gregles
Is it morning already...

Blending yeasts sounds interesting. I have used a whitelabs blended brett/saison yeast before which was different. I wonder if it would be worth splitting a batch and pitching for example kolsch and US Pale together in one half and see what happens?
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GHW
I have to say the thing about oats inhibiting hop flavours certainly isn't true in my experience. My (overly bitter neipa) is vey hoppy. Maybe it would have been more so without the oats but it's not lacking hop flavour or aroma in any sense.

It's a bit over analysed to the point of taking the fun out it!
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Steve
Gregles wrote:
Is it morning already...

Blending yeasts sounds interesting. I have used a whitelabs blended brett/saison yeast before which was different. I wonder if it would be worth splitting a batch and pitching for example kolsch and US Pale together in one half and see what happens?


Blending yeasts does sound interesting, or maybe trying to cross a yeast by slanting? Think i will give this a go.
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Clibit
GHW wrote:
I have to say the thing about oats inhibiting hop flavours certainly isn't true in my experience. My (overly bitter neipa) is vey hoppy. Maybe it would have been more so without the oats but it's not lacking hop flavour or aroma in any sense. It's a bit over analysed to the point of taking the fun out it!


Yes I agree - that thread is revealing a disturbing level of over analysis by men with an unhealthy obsession. Some people enjoy the whole detective work mallarkey that is going on there. I don't often bother reading stuff like this (any more!) I'm just stuck at home with zero energy. I've found a few bits of info interesting though. Maybe a brief summary of the interesting bits would be a good idea! The fella I quoted above did a good job tbh. 
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Clibit
Gregles wrote:
Is it morning already...

Blending yeasts sounds interesting. I have used a whitelabs blended brett/saison yeast before which was different. I wonder if it would be worth splitting a batch and pitching for example kolsch and US Pale together in one half and see what happens?


I think if you pick two yeasts or more to blend you need to have an idea what you want from each yeast. What would you be looking for from these? Are they different enough? Maybe, I dunno.

In the Tree House example, SO4 does most of the work and then there are small amounts of WB06 and T58 which are very different yeasts with strong flavour profiles. And they affect the texture of the beer too I think. Then CBC-1 is added to naturally carbonate the beer, I presume.

I considered S33 and Notty/US05 cos S33 actually produces fruity esters, but gets stuck around 1020 often, in low gravity beers even. So maybe it would be a way to get some yeast character into a beer with dried yeast, and the other yeast would get the FG down to more regular levels.  

Steve, are you talking about slanting two strains together, on the same slant?
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Steve
Yeah slanting two strains letting them do there stuff, then choosing a colony to see what has happened if anything? Maybe re slant this colony and start again.

Maybe choose a yeast that has poor floc levels but has lovely esters, also choose a strain that has super fast floc abilities but is very neutral.



Edit, i'm a nerd.
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Clibit
Steve wrote:
Yeah slanting two strains letting them do there stuff, then choosing a colony to see what has happened if anything? Maybe re slant this colony and start again.

Maybe choose a yeast that has poor floc levels but has lovely esters, also choose a strain that has super fast floc abilities but is very neutral.



Edit, i'm a nerd.


Cool!  I'm a nerd too. 
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Hops_and_Dreams
I think anyone who makes their own beer and talks about malt, hops, yeast and water online is a bit nerdy, so you're in good company, Steve.

Still yet to try a NEIPA, but I don't doubt I'd like them. Although blending yeast beyond adding a whole pack of each type sounds like hard work and and expensive exercise.
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Clibit
Hops_and_Dreams wrote:
I think anyone who makes their own beer and talks about malt, hops, yeast and water online is a bit nerdy, so you're in good company, Steve. Still yet to try a NEIPA, but I don't doubt I'd like them. Although blending yeast beyond adding a whole pack of each type sounds like hard work and and expensive exercise.


Chucking a bit of T-58 in with some S-04 isn't too expensive or tricky, if that sort of thing floats your boat.

Few yeast DNA discoveries:

1. Wy1968 and Vermont - almost identical DNA.

2. S-23 and W-34/70 - very similar DNA.

3. Danstar Windsor and Danstar London ESB - very similar DNA.

The guy who did the DNA testing has stuck to using 1318 in his NEIPAs cos he loves the beers he makes with it.

Apparently Lallemand will soon be launching a dry NEIPA yeast. I wonder if it'll be as big a hit as their London ESB!

I guess the breweries use dry yeasts cos they are convenient and these mega hoppy beers don't demand key yeast traits as much as people maybe think? They can get the textures and flavours from other ingredients, malts and hops, and water additions? Though if bit of T-58 and WB-06 are being added, maybe these provide fruitiness and tartness to boost the tangy fruit effect.




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