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Womble
MSK wrote:


yes I agree, one cannot mess with empirics!  there is a large variation in sample for sure, but still a 'reasonable', correlation.  In order to combat these fluctuations I plan to follow the half life of the beta amylase and to target it specifically with the following cunning plan! 'I have a plan' -Baldric!

62C for 20 min
64C for 10min
67C for 5 min
72C for 30 min
75C for 10 min

what say you my jolly fellow! tis it not a cunning plan! 😋


Thanks, that was the word I was looking for ... variation.  I did "study" statistics for a short while a number of years ago ... I have forgotten anything that I learnt, which wasn't much.  I also did a very small amount of law ... a very long time ago.  I found both subjects intensely dreary ...

The plan is truly cunning ...

But, I have been wondering too, why are you wanting to mash in at 62°C ?  Why not 65°C.  And why in the sacharification range ?  I have step mashed on a couple of occasions but I did a protein rest followed by the standard sugar rest.  
Multi-tasking, easy, drink beer and watch telly.
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Robbie
Womble wrote:


Thanks, that was the word I was looking for ... variation.  I did "study" statistics for a short while a number of years ago ... I have forgotten anything that I learnt, which wasn't much.  I also did a very small amount of law ... a very long time ago.  I found both subjects intensely dreary ...

The plan is truly cunning ...

But, I have been wondering too, why are you wanting to mash in at 62°C ?  Why not 65°C.  And why in the sacharification range ?  I have step mashed on a couple of occasions but I did a protein rest followed by the standard sugar rest.  


I really like the château website, it gives malt analysis on hordes of their malts.

Truly cunning, why thank you Lord Blackadder! [rofl]

Why 62C, why indeed! I want to maximise the potential of the beta enzyme for as long as possible. We know that at 62C its active for roughly 20 minutes, so why not give it 20 minutes to maximise its full potential, as we increase the temp by small degrees its half life decreases until at 67C its virtually done all it can, at least this is the theory. Yeast love maltose above all else, there is no question about it! and I like dry beers!

I am interested in understanding this 15 minute conversion number, do you know how its derived and under what parameters? and what it means? also what has diastic power to do with it and how does it work?
Beer is an expression of the human spirit. . . we use technical sciences as a tool to create it but its essence is and always will be a form of art - Handbook of brewing, chapter 2, page 55
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Womble
Website => Chateau do it as do Weyermann.  I can't remember if I have looked at the Crisp's Maltings website ... I'm sure there is info available.  I have noticed though that their spec sheets are not too precise really, they give ball-park figures, minima and tend to show how those minima are respected.  Not a problem for me, I can only brew with ball-park figures anyway.

62°C ... as I said, I used to mash-in at around 63°C.  I later decided that I would like a fuller beer ... particularly as I was only bottling at the time and extended conditioning times lead to drier beers anyway. I now have a different tack on things.  I use yeast attenuation figures to calculate my target FG ... I can generally hit the predicted FG bang on. I determine the amount of malt required to hit that FG and then I top up with sugar to achieve my desired OG.  With a lower mash temperature you are basically just converting "expensive" malt into alcohol.  Maybe I am just tight ?

15 minute conversion ... I guess it's just determined experimentally.  I know the labs use a standard mash to determine this sort of thing but you'll have to look that one up.    Enzymes are biological catalysts and their action is pretty much instantaneous.

And another idea that I have been meaning to bring up for a couple of days and keep forgetting to do.  Back to gelatinisation ... I bake my own bread and I perform an autolysis step when I prepare my dough.  The autolysis step sounds posh and scientific but it is nothing other than mixing your flour with water at room temperature with no yeast or salt and then you leave it for half an hour.  This gives the flour time to hydrolise naturally, chemically incorporate water into the starch molecules.  This happens at room temperature.  It also gives the small amount of amylase in the flour time to act some and also the naturally occurring lactobacillae (spelling, never did Latin) start fermenting, produce small amounts of acid which favourises hydrolysis and they also produce some water & CO2.  But the key point is that the starch molecules, given time, will gelatinise even at room temperature. This has a definite effect on the finished bread.

I also do the same thing when I am cooking rice ... with similar results.

So, back to my remarks from Friday ... do we really need to worry about gelatinisation ? I am looking forward to your experiments and hearing if your step mashes will make a difference.  The autolysis step in bread making & rice cooking definitely does ... so who knows ?








Multi-tasking, easy, drink beer and watch telly.
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