Pesho77

 Does any one use Co2 with there beer, ive never bothered and never had any problems before, but im planning to do a sour (or 2) so with these sitting for around 2 year im thinking maybe I should, just to be sure. 

 Im thinking 

 

Flanders Red

Vienna 50%

Carahell 9%

CaraVienna 9%

Aromatic 9%

Special B 3%

Maize / Unmalted Wheat  20%

Boil 2 hours

Bittering Hops 10 – 12 IBU Hallertaur, Styrian Goldings, EKG

O.G 1.048 – 1.057

Wyeast 3763 @ 20c for 1 week, then 27c for 8 week / cellar temp for up to 3 year.

 Does any one know of a cheap co2 set up ? 

 I dont want to spend a fortune on some thing I may only use once or twice.

 Pesh


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Clibit
I've not used CO2 yet other than with PBs but I'm in the process of setting up with cornies and I'm thinking of getting these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-REG-MMG-MIG-Gas-Regulator-Disposable-Cylinder-1-Gauge-To-ISO-2503-1-Gauge/322332623083?epid=1505263529&hash=item4b0c8580eb:g:l0QAAOSwImRYLyx6

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-X-CO2-Disposable-Gas-Mig-Welder-Bottle-Mini-C02-Welding-60Ltr-48-hr-delivery/181120437899?epid=1731874220&hash=item2a2b9e8e8b:g:UQoAAMXQSnVRZuTm
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Steve


I’d be careful where gas is concerned, welding gas tends not to be food grade! And for the price of them tbh it’s not worth the risk, I payed £50 that was including the deposit on the gas bottle, now it’s costs I think £12 for a refil every time I need one, that’s a 6kg bottle I think, the ones pubs use.
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Clibit
What is the best solution for Pesho?
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Pinto

Whats your plan, Pesho ? Corneys or Sankeys ? They're similar in process, but there are subtle differences.  First be sure you want a CO2 blanket - im pretty sure that a little oxidation in barrel aged sours is wanted, so purely filling the keg to overflowing and then sealing wouldwork for you.

CO2 supplies arent too bad if you shop in the right places, and if you want a full blanket, your beer would benefit from a Drew Beecham cylinder purge ( fill the keg to the brim with water, then use C02 to push the water out - you then have a fully CO2 purged keg.  Then pressure fill this keg to ensure no air meets beer)

Beer is like porn - you can buy it easily enough, but its so much more fun to make it [wink]
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Pesho77
im planning on using glass demi johns, its probably not worth while at all, but I dont want to wait 2 year to find I should have done it.

 So I think ive found a solution, Ive found 2 co2 bottles from my old plastic barrels, so they should do the job.

 Pesh
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Clibit
Pesho77 wrote:
im planning on using glass demi johns, its probably not worth while at all, but I dont want to wait 2 year to find I should have done it.

 So I think ive found a solution, Ive found 2 co2 bottles from my old plastic barrels, so they should do the job.

 Pesh


Check out this link, which includes the section below:

http://sourbeerblog.com/fundamentals-of-sour-beer-fermentation/

MANAGING OXYGEN EXPOSURE

Oxygen plays a dual role in sour beer fermentations, both as a vital requirement for healthy Saccharomyces and Brettanomyces growth, as well as a potential source of off-flavors.  This duality leaves us wanting to optimize oxygen exposure at differing times in a sour beer’s life cycle.  Here are some general guidelines regarding oxygen:

  • We want thorough wort oxygenation at the early stage of active Saccharomyces or Brettanomyces fermentation.  This is vital to cell growth and appropriate levels of cell growth help to develop the fermentation characteristics we are looking for while avoiding off-flavors.
  • We want very low, yet present, exposure (micro-oxygenation) during Brettanomyces aging.  Unlike SaccharomycesBrettanomyces cannot actually ferment sugars into ethanol in a completely oxygen free environment.  This curiosity, known as the Negative Pasteur Effect, is the reason why these yeasts thrive in oak barrels, an environment that continually allows them access to low levels of oxygen.  This is not to discourage the use of carboys or conical fermenters for Brettanomyces aging.  In practical applications, it is nearly impossible to create an aging environment so oxygen-free that Brettanomyces can no longer ferment.
  • After a beer has matured, or is ready to be packaged, we want to eliminate all oxygen exposure if possible. At this point, oxygen can increase acetic acid production or create staling of malt or hop compounds.

At the beginning of active fermentation, sour beer wort should be oxygenated using the same practices employed for clean beer fermentation.  While many homebrewers aerate their wort via shaking or a sintered air-stone, I prefer to employ a small oxygen tank and a sintered stone while swirling the wort for about 1 minute.  For even more repeatable results, an oxygen flow meter can be combined with a sintered stone or in-line oxygenation during wort transfer.  This last practice is the standard used by professional brewers.  Professional brewers may also measure the oxygenation of wort at the beginning of fermentation with a dissolved oxygen (DO) meter.  In my opinion, such a meter would be cost-prohibitive and unnecessary for homebrewers.

Regardless of the choice of vessel, minimization of oxygen exposure should be the goal during a sour beer’s aging.  When using carboys, this means that after any sampling the headspace should be purged with CO2.  When aging in barrels, sampling is typically done via a small “Vinnie” nail installed into the head of the barrel.  Professional brewers tend to be split into two camps in regards to whether or not to top-off a barrel after months of aging (beer volume will be naturally lost to evaporation through barrel walls).  I have no personal experience with the issue, but can say that I’ve had excellent beers from different breweries using both methods as well as overly acetic beers from breweries using both methods.  I therefore tend to believe that topping-off a barrel or not topping it off has much less of an effect than factors such as barrel wall thickness, strain selection, and sampling methods.  Regardless of vessel choice, remember to regularly top-off any airlocks (if used).  In my experience, a dried up airlock is surely a sign that the beer within has become too acetic (vinegary).

For homebrewers, Cornelius Kegs make an excellent choice for aging sour beer.  These vessels can maintain a very low oxygen environment, offer easy sampling, and can be used to ferment under mild pressure which may help to encourage or subdue fermentation character depending upon the microbes employed.

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Pesho77

 Thanks for that info, im planning to do these in glass demi johns with a wooden stopper, and an air lock to try and keep the right amount of oxygen. like I said I dont want to wait 2 years to find out I was wrong at the start.

 Pesh
 
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Gregles
Hi Pesh,

I purchased Lactobacillus plantarum tablets from here

https://www.healthmonthly.co.uk/swanson_probiotics_lplantarum_30_vegetarian_capsules

I have never used them but might get some inspiration to do so if you continue this thread[thumb]
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Pesho77
tbh im thinking of the roeselare blend yeast not just lacto, though you could use it to make a Berlinner weisse, its a nice intro to sours or maybe a gose ( a salted beer)
 
 they do look cheap though

 Pesh
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